Thich Nhat Hanh and Oprah Winfrey

Photograph: Rob Howard

He's been a Buddhist monk for more than lx years, as well every bit a instructor, writer, and vocal opponent of war—a opinion that left him exiled from his native Vietnam for 4 decades. At present the man Martin Luther Male monarch Jr. called "an apostle of peace and nonviolence" reflects on the beauty of the nowadays moment, existence grateful for every jiff, and the liberty and happiness to be found in a uncomplicated cup of tea.

The moment I see Thich Nhat Hanh at the Four Seasons Hotel in Manhattan, I feel his sense of calm. A deeply tranquil presence seems to environs the Zen Buddhist master.

But beneath Nhat Hanh's serene demeanor is a courageous warrior. The 83-year-old native of Vietnam, who joined the monastery when he was 16, valiantly opposed his own regime during the Vietnam War. Even as he embraced the wistful life of a monk, the state of war confronted him with a choice: Should he remain hidden away in the monastery tending to matters of the spirit, or become out and help the villagers who were suffering? Nhat Hanh'south determination to practice both is what gave nativity to "Engaged Buddhism"—a movement that involves peaceful activism for the purpose of social reform. It'southward also what led Martin Luther Rex Jr. to nominate him for a Nobel Peace Prize in 1967.

Equally part of his denunciation of the violence inflicted on his countrymen, Nhat Hanh founded a relief organization that rebuilt bombed Vietnamese villages, gear up upward schools and medical centers, and resettled homeless families. Nhat Hanh also created a Buddhist academy, a publishing firm, and a peace activist magazine—all of which led the Vietnamese government to forbid him, in 1966, to render domicile subsequently he'd left the country on a peace mission. He remained in exile for 39 years.

Before his exile, Nhat Hanh had spent time in the West (studying at Princeton and didactics at Columbia University in the early on 1960s), and it was to the West that he now returned. Seeing an opportunity to spread Buddhist idea and encourage peaceful activism, he led the Buddhist Peace Delegation to the Paris Peace Talks in 1969, established the Unified Buddhist Church in France, and went on to write more than than 100 books, including the 1995 all-time-seller Living Buddha, Living Christ—a volume that never leaves my nightstand.

Nhat Hanh eventually settled in Southern France and founded Plum Village, the Buddhist meditation practice middle and monastery where he still lives. Thousands of people travel at that place each twelvemonth to join him in exploring the tenets of Buddhism—including mindfulness (intentionally tuning in to the present moment), the development of a practice (a regular action, such as mindful walking, that redirects you toward right thinking), and enlightenment (the liberation from suffering that comes when you wake up to the true nature of reality). These principles were introduced to the world more than 2,000 years ago by Siddhartha Gautama, or the Buddha, the Indian-born prince who left a life of ease and indulgence in gild to seek enlightenment—and founded a religion along the way.

Thich Nhat Hanh—or, every bit his students call him, Thây, the Vietnamese give-and-take for "teacher"—brings along a group of Plum Village monks and nuns to listen in on our conversation. In some spiritual traditions, there is a concept called "belongings the infinite"—or showing up as a empathetic listener. Thây'due south friends are the infinite holders who accept traveled with him from French republic, and as we take a photo together only before our chat, they usher in a peaceful mood past collectively singing a Buddhist vocal: "Nosotros are all the leaves of one tree; we are all the waves of one sea; the fourth dimension has come for all to live as one."

Start reading Oprah's interview with Thich Nhat Hanh


Oprah: Give thanks you for the honour of talking to you. Just being in your presence, I feel less stressed than when the mean solar day started. You lot accept such a peaceful aura. Are you always this content?

Nhat Hanh: This is my training, this is my practise. And I try to live every moment like that, to keep the peace in myself.

Oprah: Because you can't requite it to others if you don't have it in yourself.

Nhat Hanh: Right.

Oprah: I see. I know that you were born in Vietnam in 1926. Is at that place any wonderful retentivity of your childhood that yous can share?

Nhat Hanh: The day I saw a picture show of the Buddha in a magazine.

Oprah: How old were you lot?

Nhat Hanh: I was seven, 8. He was sitting on the grass, very peaceful, smiling. I was impressed. Around me, people were not like that, so I had the desire to be like him. And I nourished that desire until the age of 16, when I had the permission of my parents to become and ordain as a monk.

Oprah: Did your parents encourage you?

Nhat Hanh: In the start, they were reluctant because they thought that the life of a monk is difficult.

Oprah: At 16, did you sympathize what the life would be?

Nhat Hanh: Not a lot. There was only the very strong desire. The feeling that I would non be happy if I could non become a monk. They telephone call it the beginner's mind—the deep intention, the deepest want that a person may accept. And I can say that until this day, this beginner's heed is still alive in me.

Oprah: That's what a lot of people refer to as passion. It's the way I feel about my work most days. When you're passionate about your work, it feels similar you would practice information technology even if no one were paying you.

Nhat Hanh: And you enjoy it.

Oprah: You bask it. Let's talk nearly when you start arrived in America. Y'all were a student at Princeton. Was it challenging as a Buddhist monk to grade friendships with other students? Were yous lonely?

Nhat Hanh: Well, Princeton University was like a monastery. There were simply male person students at that time. And there were non many Vietnamese living in the U.s.a.. During the kickoff six months, I did non speak Vietnamese. Just the campus was very beautiful. And everything was new—the trees and the birds and the food. My start snow was in Princeton, and the first fourth dimension I used a radiator. The commencement fall was in Princeton.

Oprah: When the leaves are changing.

Nhat Hanh: In Vietnam we did not encounter things similar that.

Oprah: At the time, were yous wearing your monk robes?

Nhat Hanh: Yep.

Oprah: Never have to worry most buying clothes, do you lot? Ever just the robe.

Nhat Hanh: Yeah.

Oprah: Practice you accept different robes for different occasions?

Nhat Hanh: Y'all have a ceremonial robe, saffron color. That's all. I feel comfortable wearing this kind of robe. And it happily reminds us that nosotros are monks.

Oprah: What does it mean to be a monk?

Nhat Hanh: To be a monk is to have time to practice for your transformation and healing. And after that to help with the transformation and healing of other people.

Oprah: Are near monks aware, or seeking enlightenment?

Nhat Hanh: Enlightenment is e'er there. Pocket-size enlightenment will bring great enlightenment. If you breathe in and are enlightened that you are live—that you can bear on the miracle of being alive—and so that is a kind of enlightenment. Many people are live but don't touch the miracle of being alive.

Oprah: I'm sure you lot see all around yous—I'k guilty of it myself—that nosotros're just trying to get through the adjacent matter. In our country, people are so busy. Even the children are busy. I become the impression very few of us are doing what y'all just said—touching the miracle that you are alive.

Nhat Hanh: That is the environment people live in. But with a do, we can e'er remain live in the present moment. With mindfulness, you can establish yourself in the present in social club to bear on the wonders of life that are available in that moment. It is possible to live happily in the hither and the now. So many conditions of happiness are available—more than enough for you to exist happy right now. You don't have to run into the hereafter in society to get more than.

Thich Nhat Hanh defines happiness and reveals how to achieve it

Oprah: What is happiness?

Nhat Hanh: Happiness is the cessation of suffering. Well-existence. For instance, when I practise this practise of breathing in, I'm aware of my eyes; breathing out, I grin to my optics and realize that they are nonetheless in expert condition. In that location is a paradise of form and colors in the globe. And because you lot have optics still in skillful condition, yous tin get in touch with the paradise. And so when I become aware of my eyes, I touch one of the weather condition of happiness. And when I touch it, happiness comes.

Oprah: And you could practice that with every role of your trunk.

Nhat Hanh: Yes. Animate in, I am aware of my center. Breathing out, I grin to my heart and know that my heart still functions commonly. I feel grateful for my heart.

Oprah: And so it'south about being aware of and grateful for what nosotros have.

Nhat Hanh: Yes.

Oprah: And not merely the material things, but the fact that nosotros accept our breath.

Nhat Hanh: Yes. Yous need the practice of mindfulness to bring your mind back to the body and establish yourself in the moment. If you are fully nowadays, you lot need but make a step or take a jiff in order to enter the kingdom of God. And once yous have the kingdom, y'all don't need to run after objects of your craving, similar power, fame, sensual pleasure, and and so on. Peace is possible. Happiness is possible. And this practice is simple enough for everyone to practice.

Oprah: Tell me how nosotros do it.

Nhat Hanh: Suppose you are drinking a cup of tea. When you hold your cup, you may like to breathe in, to bring your listen back to your body, and you lot become fully present. And when you lot are truly there, something else is besides there—life, represented by the cup of tea. In that moment you are real, and the cup of tea is existent. You are not lost in the past, in the future, in your projects, in your worries. You are gratuitous from all of these afflictions. And in that state of being costless, you enjoy your tea. That is the moment of happiness, and of peace. When y'all brush your teeth, y'all may take only two minutes, only according to this practise, it is possible to produce freedom and joy during that fourth dimension, considering y'all are established in the hither and now. If y'all are capable of brushing your teeth in mindfulness, then you lot will be able to enjoy the time when you take a shower, cook your breakfast, sip your tea.
Oprah: And so from this point of view, there are endless weather of happiness.

Nhat Hanh: Yes. Mindfulness helps you go home to the present. And every fourth dimension you become in that location and recognize a condition of happiness that you have, happiness comes.

Oprah: With you, the tea is real.

Nhat Hanh: I am real, and the tea is existent. I am in the present. I don't think of the past. I don't call up of the future. There is a existent encounter between me and the tea, and peace, happiness and joy are possible during the time I drinkable.

Oprah: I never had that much idea well-nigh a cup of tea.

Nhat Hanh: We have the exercise of tea meditation. We sit downwards, enjoy a cup of tea and our alliance, sisterhood. It takes one hour to simply relish a cup of tea.

Oprah: A cup of tea, like this? [Holds upwardly her cup.]

Nhat Hanh: Yes.

Oprah: One hour.

Nhat Hanh: Every moment is a moment of happiness. And during the hour of tea meditation, you cultivate joy, brotherhood, sisterhood, home in the here and the now.

On how community played a crucial role during his 39-year exile

Oprah: Do you lot do the same thing with all food?

Nhat Hanh: Yep. We have silent meals eaten in such a way that we go far affect with the cosmos, with every morsel of nutrient.

Oprah: How long does information technology have you to become through a meal? All day?

Nhat Hanh: I hour is enough. We sit as a community, and enjoy our meal together. So whether you lot are eating, drinking your tea, or doing your dishes, y'all do it in such a manner that freedom, joy, happiness are possible. Many people come to our centre and learn this art of mindful living. And go back to their hometowns and set up a sangha, a community, to do the same. We accept helped set upwardly sanghas all over the globe.

Oprah: A sangha is a dearest customs.

Nhat Hanh: Yep.

Oprah: How important is that in our lives? People take it with their own families, and and so y'all expand your beloved customs to include others. And so the larger your beloved community, the more yous can attain in the world.

Nhat Hanh: Right.

Oprah: On the field of study of customs, let's become back to 1966. You lot were invited to come and speak at Cornell University, and before long after that, you weren't allowed dorsum into your land. You were exiled for 39 years. How did you bargain with those feelings?

Nhat Hanh: Well, I was like a bee taken out of the beehive. Simply because I was conveying the beloved customs in my heart, I sought elements of the sangha effectually me in America and in Europe. And I began to build a community working for peace.

Oprah: Did yous feel angry at beginning? Hurt?

Nhat Hanh: Angry, worried, sad, hurt. The do of mindfulness helped me recognize that. In the first yr, I dreamed almost every night of going habitation. I was climbing a beautiful hill, very greenish, very happily, and of a sudden I woke up and found that I was in exile. So my practice was to go far touch with the copse, the birds, the flowers, the children, the people in the West—and make them my community. And considering of that practise, I constitute home outside of habitation. I year later, the dreams stopped.

Oprah: What was the reason yous weren't allowed dorsum in the country?

Nhat Hanh: During the war, the warring parties all declared that they wanted to fight until the end. And those of the states who tried to speak about reconciliation between brothers and brothers—they didn't allow us.

Oprah: Then when you were a homo without a country, y'all made a habitation in other countries.

Nhat Hanh: Aye.

Oprah: And the United states was one.

Nhat Hanh: Aye.

Oprah: How did you come across Martin Luther King?

Nhat Hanh: In June 1965, I wrote him a letter explaining why the monks in Vietnam immolated themselves. I said that this is not a suicide. I said that in situations similar the one in Vietnam, to brand your vocalism heard is hard. Sometimes nosotros accept to burn ourselves in lodge to be heard. Information technology is out of pity that you lot do that. It is the act of love and not of despair. And exactly one year afterward I wrote that letter, I met him in Chicago. Nosotros had a give-and-take well-nigh peace, freedom, and community. And we agreed that without a community, nosotros cannot go very far.

Oprah: How long was the discussion?

Nhat Hanh: Probably five minutes or so. And after that, there was a press conference, and he came out very strongly against the war in Vietnam.

Oprah: Do y'all think that was a result of your conversation?

Nhat Hanh: I believe and so. We continued our piece of work, and the last time I met him was in Geneva during the peace briefing.

Thich Nhat Hanh describes the best and only way to eliminate terrorism

Oprah: Did the ii of you speak so?

Nhat Hanh: Yes. He invited me up for breakfast, to talk about these bug once more. I got caught in a press conference downstairs and came tardily, but he kept the breakfast warm for me. And I told him that the people in Vietnam telephone call him a bodhisattva—aware being—because of what he was doing for his people, his country, and the world.

Oprah: And the fact that he was doing it nonviolently.

Nhat Hanh: Yes. That is the work of a bodhisattva, a buddha, e'er with pity and nonviolence. When I heard of his bump-off, I couldn't believe it. I thought, "The American people have produced King but are not capable of preserving him." I was a petty bit angry. I did not swallow, I did non sleep. But my conclusion to continue building the beloved community continues always. And I call up that I felt his support e'er.

Oprah: Always.

Nhat Hanh: Aye.

Oprah: Okay. We've been talking nearly mindfulness, and you've mentioned mindful walking. How does that work?

Nhat Hanh: Equally you walk, you touch on the ground mindfully, and every step can bring yous solidity and joy and freedom. Freedom from your regret concerning the past, and freedom from your fear most the future.

Oprah: Most people when they're walking are thinking about where they have to become and what they have to do. But you would say that removes u.s. from happiness.

Nhat Hanh: People cede the present for the future. But life is available only in the present. That is why we should walk in such a way that every step can bring us to the here and the at present.

Oprah: What if my bills demand to be paid? I'm walking, simply I'm thinking about the bills.

Nhat Hanh: There is a time for everything. At that place is a time when I sit down downward, I concentrate myself on the trouble of my bills, merely I would not worry earlier that. One thing at a time. Nosotros exercise mindful walking in club to heal ourselves, because walking like that actually relieves our worries, the pressure, the tension in our body and in our mind.

Oprah: The case is the same for deep listening, which I've heard you refer to.

Nhat Hanh: Deep listening is the kind of listening that can aid salve the suffering of another person. You can call it compassionate listening. You listen with only i purpose: to help him or her to empty his middle. Even if he says things that are full of wrong perceptions, full of bitterness, yous are however capable of continuing to mind with compassion. Because you know that listening like that, you give that person a chance to suffer less. If you want to help him to correct his perception, you expect for another fourth dimension. For now, you don't interrupt. You don't fence. If you do, he loses his take chances. You lot just mind with compassion and help him to suffer less. I hr like that can bring transformation and healing.

Oprah: I dear this idea of deep listening, because ofttimes when someone comes to yous and wants to vent, it'due south so tempting to start giving communication. Simply if yous allow the person just to let the feelings out, and then at another time come dorsum with advice or comments, that person would feel a deeper healing. That'due south what you lot're saying.

Nhat Hanh: Yep. Deep listening helps us to recognize the existence of incorrect perceptions in the other person and wrong perceptions in us. The other person has wrong perceptions most himself and about u.s.a.. And nosotros have wrong perceptions about ourselves and the other person. And that is the foundation for violence and conflict and war. The terrorists, they take the wrong perception. They believe that the other group is trying to destroy them as a religion, equally a culture. So they want to abolish us, to kill us before we can kill them. And the antiterrorist may think very much the same manner—that these are terrorists and they are trying to eliminate united states of america, and so nosotros have to eliminate them showtime. Both sides are motivated by fright, by acrimony, and past wrong perception. Merely wrong perceptions cannot be removed past guns and bombs. They should be removed past deep listening, compassionate listening, and loving space.

Why suffering is of import, and how to heal it

Oprah: The only manner to end war is communication between people.

Nhat Hanh: Aye. Nosotros should be able to say this: "Dearest friends, dear people, I know that you suffer. I have not understood plenty of your difficulties and suffering. It'south not our intention to make you endure more than. It is the opposite. We don't want you to suffer. But we don't know what to do and we might practice the wrong matter if you don't assist u.s.a. to sympathize. And so please tell united states of america about your difficulties. I'thou eager to acquire, to sympathise." We have to have loving speech. And if nosotros are honest, if we are truthful, they will open their hearts. Then we practise compassionate listening, and nosotros tin can learn and then much almost our own perception and their perception. Only later that tin we help remove wrong perception. That is the all-time way, the simply mode, to remove terrorism.

Oprah: But what you're saying also applies to difficulties betwixt yourself and family members or friends. The principle is the aforementioned, no matter the conflict.

Nhat Hanh: Right. And peace negotiations should be conducted in that manner. When we come to the table, we shouldn't negotiate right away. We should spend time walking together, eating together, making acquaintance, telling each other well-nigh our ain suffering, without blame or condemnation. It takes maybe ane, ii, iii weeks to do that. And if communication and understanding are possible, negotiation will be easier. So if I am to organize a peace negotiation, I will organize information technology in that style.

Oprah: Y'all'd start with tea?

Nhat Hanh: With tea and walking meditation.

Oprah: Mindful tea.

Nhat Hanh: And sharing our happiness and our suffering. And deep listening and loving speech communication.

Oprah: Is there always a identify for anger?

Nhat Hanh: Anger is the free energy that people utilize in guild to act. But when you are aroused, y'all are not lucid, and you might practice wrong things. That is why compassion is a better energy. And the energy of pity is very strong. We suffer. That is existent. But we have learned not to get angry and not to allow ourselves to be carried past anger. We realize right abroad that that is fear. That is abuse.

Oprah: What if in a moment of mindfulness you lot are being challenged? For instance, the other day someone presented me with a lawsuit, and information technology's hard to feel happy when somebody is going to be taking you to court.

Nhat Hanh: The practice is to get to the anxiety, the worry—

Oprah: The fear. First thing that happens is that fright sets in, like, What am I going to practise?

Nhat Hanh: Then you recognize that fear. You embrace information technology tenderly and await deeply into it. And every bit you encompass your hurting, you get relief and you find out how to handle that emotion. And if y'all know how to handle the fear, so you have enough insight in order to solve the problem. The problem is to not let that anxiety to take over. When these feelings arise, yous have to practice in club to apply the energy of mindfulness to recognize them, embrace them, look deeply into them. It's similar a female parent when the baby is crying. Your anxiety is your baby. You take to take care of information technology. You take to become back to yourself, recognize the suffering in you lot, encompass the suffering, and you get relief. And if you go on with your practice of mindfulness, you understand the roots, the nature of the suffering, and you know the way to transform it.

Oprah: You lot apply the give-and-take suffering a lot. I think many people think suffering is dire starvation or poverty. But when you lot speak of suffering, y'all hateful what?

Nhat Hanh: I mean the fearfulness, the anger, the despair, the anxiety in us. If you know how to deal with that, then you lot'll be able to handle problems of war and poverty and conflicts. If we take fear and despair in united states of america, we cannot remove the suffering in society.

Oprah: The nature of Buddhism, equally I understand information technology, is to believe that we are all pure and radiant at our cadre. And notwithstanding we meet effectually u.s.a. so much testify that people are not interim from a place of purity and radiance. How do we reconcile that?

Nhat Hanh: Well, happiness and suffering support each other. To be is to inter-exist. It's like the left and the right. If the left is not in that location, the right cannot be there. The same is true with suffering and happiness, good and evil. In every 1 of u.s.a. there are proficient seeds and bad. Nosotros have the seed of alliance, love, compassion, insight. Just nosotros have also the seed of anger, hate, dissent.

Oprah: That's the nature of being human.

Nhat Hanh: Aye. There is the mud, and at that place is the lotus that grows out of the mud. Nosotros demand the mud in order to make the lotus.

Oprah: Tin can't take ane without the other.

Nhat Hanh: Yes. You lot can only recognize your happiness against the background of suffering. If you have not suffered hunger, you practise not appreciate having something to consume. If you have not gone through a war, you don't know the value of peace. That is why we should not try to run away from one affair after another thing. Holding our suffering, looking deeply into it, we find a way to happiness.

Acquire about the four mantras Thich Nhat Hanh uses during meditation

Oprah: Do you meditate every single day?

Nhat Hanh: We effort to do information technology not only every day but every moment. While drinking, while talking, while writing, while watering our garden, it's ever possible to practice living in the hither and the now.

Oprah: Only do you lot e'er sit silently with yourself or recite a mantra—or not recite a mantra?

Nhat Hanh: Yes. Nosotros sit alone, we sit together.

Oprah: The more people you lot sit down with, the better.

Nhat Hanh: Yes, the collective energy is very helpful. I'd similar to talk about the mantras y'all just mentioned. The first one is "Darling, I'm here for you." When you lot dear someone, the best yous can offer is your presence. How can you honey if you are not there?

Oprah: That's a lovely mantra.

Nhat Hanh: You look into their eyes and y'all say, "Darling, you lot know something? I'm hither for you." You offering him or her your presence. You lot are not preoccupied with the by or the future; you are there for your dear. The second mantra is, "Darling, I know you lot are there and I am and so happy." Because you lot are fully at that place, you recognize the presence of your beloved as something very precious. You embrace your honey with mindfulness. And he or she will bloom similar a flower. To exist loved means to be recognized equally existing. And these two mantras can bring happiness right away, even if your honey i is not there. You can use your telephone and exercise the mantra.

Oprah: Or electronic mail.

Nhat Hanh: Email. You don't have to exercise it in Sanskrit or Tibetan—you can exercise in English language.

Oprah: Darling, I'm here for you.

Nhat Hanh: And I'k very happy. The 3rd mantra is what you exercise when your beloved i is suffering. "Darling, I know you're suffering. That is why I am here for yous." Before you exercise something to help, your presence already tin bring some relief.

Oprah: The acquittance of the suffering or the hurting.

Nhat Hanh: Yes. And the fourth mantra is a footling chip more hard. It is when you endure and y'all believe that your suffering has been caused by your beloved. If someone else had done the same wrong to y'all, you would have suffered less. Only this is the person you love the near, so you suffer deeply. You prefer to go to your room and close the door and suffer alone.

Oprah: Yeah.

Nhat Hanh: Y'all are hurt. And you want to punish him or her for having fabricated y'all suffer. The mantra is to overcome that: "Darling, I suffer. I am trying my best to practice. Delight help me." You become to him, you lot become to her, and practice that. And if you lot can bring yourself to say that mantra, you endure less right away. Considering you exercise not have that obstruction continuing betwixt yous and the other person.

Oprah: "Darling, I suffer. Please help me."

Nhat Hanh: "Please help me."

Oprah: What if he or she is not willing to help you lot?

Nhat Hanh: First of all, when yous beloved someone, y'all desire to share everything with him or her. And so it is your duty to say, "I endure and I want you to know"—and he will, she will, capeesh it.

Oprah: If he or she loves you.

Nhat Hanh: Yes. This is the case of 2 people who love each other. Your beloved one.

Oprah: All correct.

Nhat Hanh: "And when I have been trying my best to look deeply, to come across whether this suffering comes from my wrong perception and I might be able to transform it, but in this case I cannot transform it, you should assist me, darling. You lot should tell me why you take washed such a affair to me, said such a thing to me." In that way, you lot take expressed your trust, your conviction. You lot don't want to punish anymore. And that is why you endure less right away.

Thich Nhat Hanh shares what he knows for sure

Oprah: Beautiful. Now I'm going to ask simply a few questions nigh monkdom. Do you lot exercise to stay in shape?

Nhat Hanh: Yes. We have the x mindful movements. We practice walking meditation every day. Nosotros practice mindful eating.

Oprah: Are yous vegetarian?

Nhat Hanh: Aye. Vegetarian. Complete. Nosotros do non use brute products anymore.

Oprah: And so you lot wouldn't eat an egg.

Nhat Hanh: No egg, no milk, no cheese. Because nosotros know that mindful eating can help save our planet.

Oprah: Exercise you watch boob tube?

Nhat Hanh: No. But I'grand in touch with the globe. If anything actually of import happens, someone will tell me.

Oprah: That's the fashion I feel!

Nhat Hanh: Y'all don't have to mind to the news three times a day or read one newspaper afterward another.

Oprah: That's correct. Now, the life of a monk is a celibate life, correct?

Nhat Hanh: Yeah.

Oprah: You lot never had trouble with the idea of giving upwardly union or children?

Nhat Hanh: One day when I was in my 30s, I was practicing meditation in a park in France. I saw a immature mother with a beautiful baby. And in a flash I thought that if I was not a monk, I would have a wife and a kid similar that. The idea lasted only for ane second. I overcame information technology very quickly.

Oprah: That was non the life for you. And speaking of life, what about death? What happens when nosotros die, do yous believe?

Nhat Hanh: The question tin can exist answered when you lot can reply this: What happens in the present moment? In the present moment, you are producing thought, speech, and action. And they proceed in the world. Every thought you produce, anything you say, any activity yous do, it bears your signature. Activeness is called karma. And that's your continuation. When this trunk disintegrates, you continue on with your deportment. It'south like the cloud in the sky. When the cloud is no longer in the heaven, it hasn't died. The deject is connected in other forms like rain or snowfall or water ice. Our nature is the nature of no birth and no death. It is impossible for a cloud to laissez passer from being into nonbeing. And that is true with a beloved person. They accept not died. They accept continued in many new forms and you can expect deeply and recognize them in you and around you.

Oprah: Is that what you meant when yous wrote i of my favorite poems, "Call Me By My Truthful Proper name"?

Nhat Hanh: Yeah. When y'all call me European, I say yes. When yous call me Arab, I say aye. When y'all call me black, I say yes. When y'all call me white, I say yes. Because I am in you and you are in me. We have to inter-exist with everything in the cosmos.

Oprah: [Reading from the poem] "I am a mayfly metamorphosing on the surface of the river. And I am the bird that swoops downwardly to consume the mayfly.... I am the child in Uganda, all peel and bones, my legs as sparse as bamboo sticks. And I am the artillery merchant, selling mortiferous weapons to Uganda. I am the 12-twelvemonth-old daughter, refugee on a small gunkhole, who throws herself into the sea after being raped by a body of water pirate. And I am the pirate, my heart not yet capable of seeing and loving.... Delight telephone call me past my truthful names, and so I can hear all my cries and laughter at once, so I can come across that my joy and pain are one. Delight phone call me past my true names, so I can wake upwardly and the door of my heart could be left open, the door of compassion." What does that poem mean?

Nhat Hanh: It means pity is our most important practice. Understanding brings compassion. Understanding the suffering that living beings undergo helps liberate the free energy of compassion. And with that energy you know what to do.

Oprah: Okay. At the end of this magazine, I have a column called "What I Know for Certain." What do you know for certain?

Nhat Hanh: I know that we exercise not know plenty. We take to keep to learn. We take to be open up. And we have to be ready to release our knowledge in social club to come to a higher understanding of reality. When you climb a ladder and make it on the 6th footstep and you lot think that is the highest, and so y'all cannot come to the seventh. So the technique is to abandon the 6th in guild for the 7th step to be possible. And this is our practice, to release our views. The practice of nonattachment to views is at the heart of the Buddhist exercise of meditation. People suffer because they are caught in their views. As soon every bit nosotros release those views, we are free and nosotros don't suffer anymore.

Oprah: Isn't the true quest to be gratuitous?

Nhat Hanh: Yes. To be costless, beginning of all, is to be complimentary from wrong views that are the foundation of all kinds of suffering and fear and violence.

Oprah: It has been my honor to talk to y'all today.

Nhat Hanh: Cheers. A moment of happiness that might help people.

Oprah: I think it will.

Read more O Talks